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	<title>Comments on: That time Mike almost flush drowned</title>
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	<link>http://www.theriverlifestyle.com/2009/11/that-time-mike-almost-flush-drowned/</link>
	<description>The best kayaker is the one having the most fun</description>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.theriverlifestyle.com/2009/11/that-time-mike-almost-flush-drowned/comment-page-1/#comment-52</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theriverlifestyle.com/?p=231#comment-52</guid>
		<description>Very good and informative post. 

I took a bad swim, similar to Mike&#039;s, in the Adirondacks a few years ago.
The similarities:
1. The river was at flood stage. Because of this, there were not really any eddys, the current was right up to, and often into, the trees along the banks, and there were a ton of pourovers.
2. There was not alot my paddling group could do to help. The pourovers were powerful enough that a swimmer holding on to a boat could easily result in 2 swimmers, which would have been very bad. They tried as best they could to assist me, but the river was just too strong, and coming at us too fast. 
3. The only way I got out was to do it myself. At first I was hesitant to get close to the shore, because the high water resulted in alot of strainers near the shore. Eventually I realized that I was getting weak and would need to do something. I did get to shore and grabbed a bush, which planed me under water. I refused to let go and pulled myself up hand over hand until I was out of the river.  

I don&#039;t think a throw bag would have helped much. By the time anyone found a place where they could get out and set themselves up, I would have been too far downriver and very weak. 

In retrospect, what we could have done differently (and better) would have been to scout the river better before we put on. We knew it was high, but didn&#039;t realize that it was so high that there were no eddys for the first 2 miles (or more) of the run. Given the strength of the paddlers in our group, we never should have paddled that day. I now have a better respect for rivers at flood stage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good and informative post. </p>
<p>I took a bad swim, similar to Mike&#8217;s, in the Adirondacks a few years ago.<br />
The similarities:<br />
1. The river was at flood stage. Because of this, there were not really any eddys, the current was right up to, and often into, the trees along the banks, and there were a ton of pourovers.<br />
2. There was not alot my paddling group could do to help. The pourovers were powerful enough that a swimmer holding on to a boat could easily result in 2 swimmers, which would have been very bad. They tried as best they could to assist me, but the river was just too strong, and coming at us too fast.<br />
3. The only way I got out was to do it myself. At first I was hesitant to get close to the shore, because the high water resulted in alot of strainers near the shore. Eventually I realized that I was getting weak and would need to do something. I did get to shore and grabbed a bush, which planed me under water. I refused to let go and pulled myself up hand over hand until I was out of the river.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think a throw bag would have helped much. By the time anyone found a place where they could get out and set themselves up, I would have been too far downriver and very weak. </p>
<p>In retrospect, what we could have done differently (and better) would have been to scout the river better before we put on. We knew it was high, but didn&#8217;t realize that it was so high that there were no eddys for the first 2 miles (or more) of the run. Given the strength of the paddlers in our group, we never should have paddled that day. I now have a better respect for rivers at flood stage.</p>
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		<title>By: Baabaa</title>
		<link>http://www.theriverlifestyle.com/2009/11/that-time-mike-almost-flush-drowned/comment-page-1/#comment-41</link>
		<dc:creator>Baabaa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 22:22:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theriverlifestyle.com/?p=231#comment-41</guid>
		<description>While it doesn&#039;t matter how much water is in a river, it is always inherently dangerous. It is obvious from your video that is much harder with a bit more water on a run such as this. You say Mike has done a lot of swimming in rapids over the years of teaching swift water rescue and so on. I think this type of training is invaluable to all water users. The more skills a paddler or rafter, or anyone in the water has, the better their chance of a desirable outcome. I have been a riverboarding guide in NZ for almost a decade. We are now starting to work very closely with the rafting community in particular, but are happy to trade skills with any white water enthusiast. Knowing how to &#039;head&#039;s up&#039; swim is another string to someone&#039;s bow and the basics of this are definately what helped Mike to save his own life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While it doesn&#8217;t matter how much water is in a river, it is always inherently dangerous. It is obvious from your video that is much harder with a bit more water on a run such as this. You say Mike has done a lot of swimming in rapids over the years of teaching swift water rescue and so on. I think this type of training is invaluable to all water users. The more skills a paddler or rafter, or anyone in the water has, the better their chance of a desirable outcome. I have been a riverboarding guide in NZ for almost a decade. We are now starting to work very closely with the rafting community in particular, but are happy to trade skills with any white water enthusiast. Knowing how to &#8216;head&#8217;s up&#8217; swim is another string to someone&#8217;s bow and the basics of this are definately what helped Mike to save his own life.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle Kovalik</title>
		<link>http://www.theriverlifestyle.com/2009/11/that-time-mike-almost-flush-drowned/comment-page-1/#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle Kovalik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 00:29:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theriverlifestyle.com/?p=231#comment-40</guid>
		<description>Thanks for posting this. The narration is excellent and very informative. I&#039;m so glad it turned out OK in the end. 

I do have a comment about PFDs here. I noticed Mike (and at least one other paddler) was wearing the Astral 300 Rescue vest. I started creeking about 7 years ago (raft guiding for decades prior) and bought a Stohlquist Extract. When the 300R came out I switched over. It was more comfortable and I liked the bells and whistles. Then I took a swim on the Ohanepecosh in WA. Although I didn&#039;t have to swim too far, and it was class II/III for the most part, several people (especially me) noticed that my head was under water a lot. Later I checked out how I float in the 300R versus the Extract: The Extract floats me significantly higher in the water, even though they are rated pretty close in floation. I&#039;ve since switched back to a new Extract as the old one was a bit worn. I&#039;ve heard that the new Astral Green Vest floats much better than the 300R but I&#039;m happy with my decision. 

It is my opinion that most current kayaking vests don&#039;t have enough floatation in case of a swim, especially in a big water situation. I am aware of the argument that too much flotation can create the potential for getting re-circulated in a sticky pourover, but I personally would rather have my head above water for the majority of the swim and risk the recirculation. I believe another two pounds would not make that much difference in a pourouver but could make a world of difference over a 4 minute swim such as Mike&#039;s. 

One other point about the 300R and some other new vests: It is increasingly popular to put a pocket on the front of the vest in which to store a throw bag (rescue rope). While I like the idea of a throw bag being handy at all times, it is my opinion that this is not the best place to keep it. Living in the NW, I try to be extremely concious of trees in the water. I have been taught that the best defense for keeping from getting swept under a strainer is to swim towards it and to try and launch yourself over the log (last ditch and only if it&#039;s inevitable that you are going to hit it of course - avoidance is always the preferred solution). Any extra bulk in/on the front of the PFD will hinder this manouver. 

Thanks again for the sobering and informative post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for posting this. The narration is excellent and very informative. I&#8217;m so glad it turned out OK in the end. </p>
<p>I do have a comment about PFDs here. I noticed Mike (and at least one other paddler) was wearing the Astral 300 Rescue vest. I started creeking about 7 years ago (raft guiding for decades prior) and bought a Stohlquist Extract. When the 300R came out I switched over. It was more comfortable and I liked the bells and whistles. Then I took a swim on the Ohanepecosh in WA. Although I didn&#8217;t have to swim too far, and it was class II/III for the most part, several people (especially me) noticed that my head was under water a lot. Later I checked out how I float in the 300R versus the Extract: The Extract floats me significantly higher in the water, even though they are rated pretty close in floation. I&#8217;ve since switched back to a new Extract as the old one was a bit worn. I&#8217;ve heard that the new Astral Green Vest floats much better than the 300R but I&#8217;m happy with my decision. </p>
<p>It is my opinion that most current kayaking vests don&#8217;t have enough floatation in case of a swim, especially in a big water situation. I am aware of the argument that too much flotation can create the potential for getting re-circulated in a sticky pourover, but I personally would rather have my head above water for the majority of the swim and risk the recirculation. I believe another two pounds would not make that much difference in a pourouver but could make a world of difference over a 4 minute swim such as Mike&#8217;s. </p>
<p>One other point about the 300R and some other new vests: It is increasingly popular to put a pocket on the front of the vest in which to store a throw bag (rescue rope). While I like the idea of a throw bag being handy at all times, it is my opinion that this is not the best place to keep it. Living in the NW, I try to be extremely concious of trees in the water. I have been taught that the best defense for keeping from getting swept under a strainer is to swim towards it and to try and launch yourself over the log (last ditch and only if it&#8217;s inevitable that you are going to hit it of course &#8211; avoidance is always the preferred solution). Any extra bulk in/on the front of the PFD will hinder this manouver. </p>
<p>Thanks again for the sobering and informative post.</p>
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		<title>By: daniel dellwo</title>
		<link>http://www.theriverlifestyle.com/2009/11/that-time-mike-almost-flush-drowned/comment-page-1/#comment-39</link>
		<dc:creator>daniel dellwo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 02:42:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theriverlifestyle.com/?p=231#comment-39</guid>
		<description>I just wanted to add this note, because i have found this technique very effective at recovering boats and people in continuous rapids.  I think the rescuers did very well, and someone may have tried to do this, but I could not tell from the video.

At lest one of those people boating next to the swimmer should have gone down stream as quickly as possible to the next decent eddy.   Decent meaning large enough to pendulum him into that eddy or one directly below safely.  

I believe two boaters on a swimmer is quite enough, the others should have headed down stream.   It may not have had any effect on the length of Mikes swim, but then again had Mike not had the strength to swim to that eddy the rope might have saved him.  

Secondly,  Had Mike ended up unconsious someone would have needed to either clip him in and paddle him to shore, or live bait him in.    The later would have only been possible had the other two fellas headed down stream to better eddies.  

I know each situation is different, but i still generally feel that in situations such as that you need send people down stream to insure that you will be able to get the person out of the water at some point.  

Once again,  someone may have tried to head down stream fair enough to set up but i couldn&#039;t tell.   No, disrespect to the heroic rescuers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just wanted to add this note, because i have found this technique very effective at recovering boats and people in continuous rapids.  I think the rescuers did very well, and someone may have tried to do this, but I could not tell from the video.</p>
<p>At lest one of those people boating next to the swimmer should have gone down stream as quickly as possible to the next decent eddy.   Decent meaning large enough to pendulum him into that eddy or one directly below safely.  </p>
<p>I believe two boaters on a swimmer is quite enough, the others should have headed down stream.   It may not have had any effect on the length of Mikes swim, but then again had Mike not had the strength to swim to that eddy the rope might have saved him.  </p>
<p>Secondly,  Had Mike ended up unconsious someone would have needed to either clip him in and paddle him to shore, or live bait him in.    The later would have only been possible had the other two fellas headed down stream to better eddies.  </p>
<p>I know each situation is different, but i still generally feel that in situations such as that you need send people down stream to insure that you will be able to get the person out of the water at some point.  </p>
<p>Once again,  someone may have tried to head down stream fair enough to set up but i couldn&#8217;t tell.   No, disrespect to the heroic rescuers.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon McAnulty</title>
		<link>http://www.theriverlifestyle.com/2009/11/that-time-mike-almost-flush-drowned/comment-page-1/#comment-38</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon McAnulty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 22:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theriverlifestyle.com/?p=231#comment-38</guid>
		<description>Nice to post this. It is good instruction. I swam the section above Flight Simulator one June in the late 80&#039;s/early 90&#039;s. The water level was similar to what you show where we were using the boils behind holes to pause to scout as there were few eddies at that flow. I got worked in a hole and, unbeknownst to me, had one leg pulled through my thigh hook and was unable to roll (in retrospect I could have rolled offside but did not). In our video you can see me scouting over my boat while sculling between series of roll attempts. Upon swimming, I had to swim back into the rapids because the only available slack water on river left was flowing into a log jam. I swam the 4 rapids above FS, a long cold big water swim. Some things to add to your excellent suggestions on survival swimming in this video; I was able to hold on to my boat. I used it as a shield from some rocks and on several occasions it pulled me through pourover hydraulics that would have otherwise recirculated me, it also aided with flotation to some degree; I did some maneuvering in the rapids but only enough to improve a line slightly (moving left or right just a few feet to reduce the drubbings a bit); stayed relaxed and conserved energy (you make this point and I think it is key since when your chance comes up you need the juice to take advantage of it); scouting when possible (I could get occasional glimpses of the lay of the land so I could strategize); and last, I was mentally ready to make my move when it presented itself. At the end of the swim I was on river right, flowing into the next rapid, saw a brief opportunity,threw my paddle to shore,  and with a few quick strokes as strong as I could make, swam into it, letting go of my boat. There was no opportunity in that stretch for rescue by my friends although they did get my boat and after a brief rest and recovery, we finished the section. Hope this addition is of some value to viewers of your video. 31 years of paddling, still at it and teaching my kids (but a little wiser now).
Best regards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice to post this. It is good instruction. I swam the section above Flight Simulator one June in the late 80&#8217;s/early 90&#8217;s. The water level was similar to what you show where we were using the boils behind holes to pause to scout as there were few eddies at that flow. I got worked in a hole and, unbeknownst to me, had one leg pulled through my thigh hook and was unable to roll (in retrospect I could have rolled offside but did not). In our video you can see me scouting over my boat while sculling between series of roll attempts. Upon swimming, I had to swim back into the rapids because the only available slack water on river left was flowing into a log jam. I swam the 4 rapids above FS, a long cold big water swim. Some things to add to your excellent suggestions on survival swimming in this video; I was able to hold on to my boat. I used it as a shield from some rocks and on several occasions it pulled me through pourover hydraulics that would have otherwise recirculated me, it also aided with flotation to some degree; I did some maneuvering in the rapids but only enough to improve a line slightly (moving left or right just a few feet to reduce the drubbings a bit); stayed relaxed and conserved energy (you make this point and I think it is key since when your chance comes up you need the juice to take advantage of it); scouting when possible (I could get occasional glimpses of the lay of the land so I could strategize); and last, I was mentally ready to make my move when it presented itself. At the end of the swim I was on river right, flowing into the next rapid, saw a brief opportunity,threw my paddle to shore,  and with a few quick strokes as strong as I could make, swam into it, letting go of my boat. There was no opportunity in that stretch for rescue by my friends although they did get my boat and after a brief rest and recovery, we finished the section. Hope this addition is of some value to viewers of your video. 31 years of paddling, still at it and teaching my kids (but a little wiser now).<br />
Best regards.</p>
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		<title>By: A Harrowing Video of a Swim &#171; River Rafting in Washington</title>
		<link>http://www.theriverlifestyle.com/2009/11/that-time-mike-almost-flush-drowned/comment-page-1/#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>A Harrowing Video of a Swim &#171; River Rafting in Washington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theriverlifestyle.com/?p=231#comment-37</guid>
		<description>[...] Steve Laboff, veteran guide who is, essentially and unofficially, my eyes and ears on the internet, sent this link to a harrowing video of a kayaker&#8217;s unscheduled swim on the East Fork of the South Fork of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Steve Laboff, veteran guide who is, essentially and unofficially, my eyes and ears on the internet, sent this link to a harrowing video of a kayaker&#8217;s unscheduled swim on the East Fork of the South Fork of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: James L. Moore</title>
		<link>http://www.theriverlifestyle.com/2009/11/that-time-mike-almost-flush-drowned/comment-page-1/#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator>James L. Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:33:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theriverlifestyle.com/?p=231#comment-36</guid>
		<description>Your comments are very salient and instructive.  Having boated for more than 35 years, I have witnessed or heard of incidents that might have been avoided if the victims and rescuers had used your advice.

It is good to know that this one had a happy ending. . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your comments are very salient and instructive.  Having boated for more than 35 years, I have witnessed or heard of incidents that might have been avoided if the victims and rescuers had used your advice.</p>
<p>It is good to know that this one had a happy ending. . .</p>
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		<title>By: michael McCarthy</title>
		<link>http://www.theriverlifestyle.com/2009/11/that-time-mike-almost-flush-drowned/comment-page-1/#comment-35</link>
		<dc:creator>michael McCarthy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 20:02:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theriverlifestyle.com/?p=231#comment-35</guid>
		<description>Great video and great teaching tool  Thanks for sharing this on Idaho Whitewater.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great video and great teaching tool  Thanks for sharing this on Idaho Whitewater.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.theriverlifestyle.com/2009/11/that-time-mike-almost-flush-drowned/comment-page-1/#comment-16</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 02:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theriverlifestyle.com/?p=231#comment-16</guid>
		<description>Would there have been some disadvantage to getting out at the first eddy and using a throw bag? Just curious, as I am a novice and want to know what the best strategy is in that type of situation...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would there have been some disadvantage to getting out at the first eddy and using a throw bag? Just curious, as I am a novice and want to know what the best strategy is in that type of situation&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: uberVU - social comments</title>
		<link>http://www.theriverlifestyle.com/2009/11/that-time-mike-almost-flush-drowned/comment-page-1/#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator>uberVU - social comments</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:48:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theriverlifestyle.com/?p=231#comment-15</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Social comments and analytics for this post...&lt;/strong&gt;

This post was mentioned on Twitter by riverlifestyle: Head cam video of a near flush drowning http://bit.ly/1G6cPO Scary but I think you can really learn from this. #whitewater #kayaking...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Social comments and analytics for this post&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>This post was mentioned on Twitter by riverlifestyle: Head cam video of a near flush drowning <a href="http://bit.ly/1G6cPO" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/1G6cPO</a> Scary but I think you can really learn from this. #whitewater #kayaking&#8230;</p>
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